I ordered the Brock about 3 weeks ago and started on the install right after I signed for it. Install was simple and easy and I had the bike running within 45min. The gains from this mod was more than I expected and really woke up the Z. I love the ease of jetting and was the main reason I bought this particular carb.

With that said, I do have a few issues with it that I would like to share and hopefully help Edelbrock resolve. First off I had done my homework before buying this carb so I did expect and was prepared for some of these issues.

-The first issue which has been brought up before, is the quad dieing after a full throttle run and pulling in the clutch to coast to a stop.

-The 2nd issue was after the third day of having the carb the jetting became eratic, somtimes running lean then rich (without even adjusting the jetting) and the idle was fluctuating all over the place. I found that the Brock carb vacuum port for the fuel petcock pulls about 5 - 6in. Hg more vacuum at idle and 1 - 2in. Hg more vacuum at full throttle then the stock carb. This doesn't seem like a big problem until it starts sucking gas and air from the petcock (most of the time at idle). I tightened the screws in the petcock but I still get a small amout of gas in the vacuum tube (not as much as before but still some) and no the diaphram is not ripped, yet. The only real fix is to get an aftermarket petcock or do the mod on the stock one and stop using the vacuum port altogether. In my case anyway.

-The third issue just started happening about three days ago, which was during a full throttle run in 5th gear the quad would start cutting out after about 1/4 mile. When I released the throttle for about 5 seconds it would straighten out and I could go another 1/4 mile before it would start acting up again. I had a feeling that the bowl was running dry and I figured it was the petcock not allowing enough fuel to the carb but I found out today that it is giving enough fuel. So I PM'ed Bonk and he immediatly responded and said to raise my float level. So I pulled my carb, emptied the gas in the bowl and took it apart in my kitchen. I did see that the fuel level from the factory is kind of low so I adjusted it to his recommendations and before putting it back together I started looking at the float design. The problem I see with the carb is the Needle Valve design (the needle that controls flow of fuel to the bowl). For one it lays sideways instead of vertical like most other carbs (gravity plays no part in opening the needle) and the float does not have a push/pull design (like most other carbs). So I experimented and ran running water through the fuel hose until the float level was up pushing the needle in the closed position and stopped letting water in. Then I pushed the float down and tried to let more water in and, just like I expected, the needle was stuck and, without a hard tap on the bowl or pressure from blowing in the fuel line, it would not move from it's closed position. When I did get it to move to it's open position it was not opening all the way and letting a good flow of water in.

Bonk if you're reading this thread, I know redesigning is out of the question but if you guys just put a push/pull Needle Valve and Float assembly in, that should take care of the 1st and 3rd issues. Both problems seem to be associated with not enough fuel in the bowl. And thanks for the fast reply to my PM but I just think it's a band aid to the real problem. My thinking is (and I could be wrong) that raising the float level will only help me go 1/2 mile WOT instead of 1/4 mile.


CONCLUSION: This is a great carb with alot of features and I'm very happy with it. With the Needle Valve being changed to a push/pull, 90% of the problems people are having with this carb would probably be resolved. Hey Bonk if you need a tester for a new float assembly I would be willing to be a Guinea Pig.

I am noticing alot of the same with mine. I would be wide open into a corner and as soon as I let of and pulled in the clutch it would die. Same thing with drag racing, at the end of the race I would slow and pull in clutch and it would die then too. Then there are times when it seems like it is reving slow and then fast without any adjustments. Should I try adjusting the float also for the end of WOT die.

Yeah, you should raise your float level a little since it's low from the factory. I'm still having problems with my bowl running dry, waiting for my pingel petcock, hopfully that will help. I PM'ed Bonk a link to this thread, hope they're trying to come up with a solution.

I have one of Pingel's dirt valves, here is the link.
My rebuild is not done.... so I can't give you a rating on it yet.

Tortured z

Very informative review. We are in the process of testing something’s in the float bowl. I will let you know what I come up with in the next week. I will post my finding and the fix to the problems you have stated.

The Pingel Petcock seemed to fix the problem with the bowl running dry.
Thanks Bonk, looking forward to hearing what you guys come up with.

Could I get some info or Phone# on how to order one of those valves. Thanxs in Advance.

CALL 888-4-PINGEL
Heres the web page for the part number Pingel

Man, the more I read the more people I see with problem number 1 you listed. I got my Brock when they first came out and have had this problem every since. I have tried multiple things with no results. I have been in contact with Bonk via pm and email. This weekend I finally got my carb off and apart and found the same things you have described. The fuel level was low so I fixed that. Then I noticed the float bowl takes a LONG time to fill back up when its dry. 8-10 seconds in my case. Also noticed that the valve dont open back up if you push the float down after its closed.

Hopefully this these issues can be fixed. I just want to get my Z running right so I dont have to try and tune around it it. it cost me a lot of power to do so. I will check out the pingle deal.

Bonk, keep up the good work.

Chris

I had the same issues with my carb. Very frustrating to have these issues after paying $$$$$ for this carb. Every time my nose dips, my bike would stall. I put in lots of hours into this ajusting the float bowel, etc. and I finally sent it back to edelbrock, who in turn fixed it and sent it back to me. Now the main problem I'm having is that it just doesn't seem to have the responsiveness that it should. It tends to bog if you let off the trottle and nail it again. Don't know what else to do. I really liked the idea of the carb and its always got good reviews, but Im at a lose.

Volt,

If you’re having a problem when you nail the throttle, you will need to adjust your accelerator pump. The pump is what supplies the extra fuel needed for hard acceleration.


I was yet again unable to get out and test this weekend. I almost forgot about mother’s day, and I’m not brave enough to ask the wife for permission to ride on “HER” day. I have been able to complete the testing on our float bowl flow bench with good results. If I am correct I don’t think there are any special holidays that will prevent me from getting out and testing. Sorry for the delay on this.

I also would like to thank everyone that has posted about this problem. We have herd almost nothing about this, so we didn’t think any issues we going on. This forum has told us otherwise, and we’ll get this fixed.

I have a question for those of you who have had experience with the Brock carb and the Keihn carb. Edelbrock or Kehien??? I have an Edelbrock carb ready to be put on my bike as soon as the frame gets back from the paint shop but after reading all of these problems with the Brock, I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle. I guess my big question is are all the problems with the Edelbrock fixable. Should I just resell the Edelbrok and buy a Kehien or maybe you all suggest another one. I just want to be able to bolt on and ride with a small amount of maintenance to keep it running. I don't wanna be tuning this carb every day!
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2003 LTZ 400 (Yellow)
Fully gusseted frame
Trinity Racing 440 big bore
12.5-1 compression piston
stage II hot cams
Heavy duty cam chain
Head porting and polished
Dyna FS programable ignition
Trinity racing full stage IV exhaust
PWR aluminum radiator
K&N Air filter with lid removed from air box
Edelbrok carb
Heavy duty clutch kit
Elka shocks all around

There aren't many problems with the 'Brock. I've never experienced the starvation problem described in here; maybe mine is the weird one.

I hope mine is weird too!



----------------------------------------------
2003 LTZ 400 (Yellow)
Trinity Racing 440 big bore
12.5-1 compression piston
stage II hot cams
Heavy Duty valve springs
Heavy duty cam chain
Head porting and polished
Dyna FS programable ignition
Trinity racing full stage IV exhaust
PWR aluminum radiator
K&N Air filter with lid removed from air box
Edelbrok carb
Heavy duty clutch kit
Elka shocks all around

It may just be the style of riding that determines what problems different people have. Normal, if you you can, run a long stretch of road WOT to see if you can get your bowl to run dry. It takes a little longer on flat smooth surfaces, about 1 mile or so. I would like to find out if it's a flaw in certain production runs. Probably not, seeing as Jackhammer had similar test results, but it might help Bonk with his testing.

when i first got mine did that too .i thought i was going to have to mess with the float.but after about 3-4 tanks of gas it never did it again.i have had this carb on for 2 years no problems since

When i first got mine it ran like a stripped a$$ ape but it just dont work right now its just flat and my comprsion is fine just put in anthena kit .

Valves worn, and not sealing like they should?

So far I haven`t had any fuel starvation issues w/ mine either...but I haven`t tried a 1 mi. or so WOT run either. Even if it would run dry on that long of a run, it`s not a problem for me as not many MX tracks (or even TT tracks for that matter) have straightaways that long. As far as the erratic idling...YEAH...I have been experiencing that one also . I`m running the stock petcock (un-modded at the moment) w/o the vacuum line from the `Brock to the petcock (both are capped off) & the float level set as it was out of the box from the factory. Would these settings be what`s causing my erratic idle? Thanks in advance for any input!
P.S. Overall I`m pleased w/ the `Brocks performance gain so far (my butt dyno felt some gains/improvement when I rode it the 1st time after mounting it on).

Here is a little update on my Z and Brock:

Bonk sent me a new needle and seat. I put them in and readjusted my float level. I put it all back together after cleaning out my tank real good. Put new fuel line on as well. Dumped in some new gas and fired it up. Came to life and idled nice, especialy since it has been atleast 8 months since it has ran. I warmed it up and went for a nice easy ride to check the "jetting" out. Seemed good so I opened it up and tested the "jetting" some more. Looks dead on. So now I open it up. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th. Wind it right out. Grab the clutch and let off the throttle and out went the fire. Just like before. Only now my idle is all over the place. When cold it idles a little on the high side, right where I put it. after some gentle driving when warm its a slight bit lower, but good. After a WOT run, pull the clutch and flame out then restart, the idle is super low i.e. barely runs. shut it off then start it back up and idle goes back up (or if i leave it run and drive slow and stop it comes back up).

So thats where I am at right now.

Chris

I was able to get our shop Z out over the weekend to do some testing. I was unable to notice any of the problems that are stated on this forum. I’m not saying that they don’t exist, I just haven’t experienced they. I am going to be getting two more quads that are modified differently than our shop Z and do some more testing. Ours is a 455 with the stock petcock that I always run in the PRI position.

If anyone, who is having these problems, is willing to send me the carb to check and test please let me know. This would be the best way for me to see exactly what is happening and get the problem fixed. Unfortunately since I haven’t had the problem on our Z or one locally it’s been a guessing game to see where the problem lies.

any new news on this subject? anyone else find a fix? anyone else having this problem?

Chris

Mine`s still acting the same way your`s is Idle is always fluctuating (same as you described) & it`s doin` the "out goes the fire" thing (again...same as you described) AT LEAST 50% of the time when I pull the clutch in on hard/fast deceleration situations (such as going into a fairly sharp corner) but I`ve just adapted to these problems & compensate for them as best I can (in other words: I`m constantly reaching down & fiddling w/ the remote idle knob...unless I`m racing & I`m always on the ready for the fire to go out going into turns...either by A: trying to avoid having to pull the clutch in B: staying on the gas or C: having a quick thumb & goosing it once or twice when I DO actually have to pull the clutch in in that situation!)

One thing you might want to check is the cable wheel. This is the part where the throttle cable attaches to the carb. We have had a few cases where this has come loose. If this is loose at all it can cause the problems that are being expressed here. To check to see if it’s loose, with the throttle cable still attached open the throttle slowly checking to see if the cable wheel moves before the shaft that runs through the center of it.

What?

You won't understand if you don't have an edelbrock carb^^

OK...THANKS! bonk....I`ll check that as soon as I get a chance to do so & hopefully that`s my situation.

Ah, so I'm not the only one with the idle problem. I can adjust the jetting, and it will run great for a couple hours. Then out of nowhere, it just refuses to idle. If I adjust, it might last a little longer then, but it'll eventually just start cutting out again.

On a side note, at the moment, whenever I give the throttle a nice jab, the bike sputters. If you rev smoothly (not necessarily slowly) the bike is fine. I assume its the accelerator pump? Only thing is I haven't adjusted it and it ran fine a few weeks ago (when I was last riding).

The aftermarket petcock, can you get one that has an on, off and reserve? And will this fix the coming to a fast stop issue only?

Yeah Dan, you`re not the only one having the erratic idling probs. (a few of us are). It`s my understanding that the Pingel petcock is a "true" ON-OFF-RES type petcock, but the reason some guys have gotten them is for the purpose of eliminating the fuel starvation probs that they were experiencing...not the fast stop/pull in the clutch probs. As far as your "jab the throttle & it sputters" prob., I think you`re correct in that you just need to re-adjust your accelerator pump shot (sounds like it needs to be richened a bit). Hope this helps!

Anyone have any updates or new suggestions with the idle problem?
I did a TT race over the 4th of July and the idle was right on not a problem. Now less than 2 weeks later I ran Flattrack practice and the thing wouldn't stay running at an idle, just iddled lower and lower till the fire went out. And as far as any adjustments I had made in those two weeks, zip, nadda, nothing, unless U consider washing, adding the same fuel, and checking the oil as an adjustment.

My bike actually stayed idling the entire last trip. Its a little richer, and I increased the idle speed. Its running great now.

Last trip, we were all waking up and starting our bikes. One person in our group has a pretty much stock kfx (just a slipon and rejet). She's having trouble starting it up, it keeps dying or won't stay idling. I walk over to my bike, give it one or two quick throttle pumps, and it instantly fires up and sounds great as I walk away laughing.

Bonk,

I'm an XR600R rider, and just (6 weeks ago) put a Brock on my BRP. I was super pleased with with my first 5 or so outings - it felt like I had a brand new bike, with no more "flat spot" on rapid acceleration. It also starts easier, and restarts much easier when I dump it.

Here's the issue, and it was this thread that led me to the temporary fix.

This past Saturday, after having ridden the Monday before, I got out to the trailhead. Opened the petcock, gave it two quick throttle burst, and kicked it. Like usual, it started right up - for about 4 seonds, then it quit. And after that, I could not get it started. We towed it to roll start, we changed the plug (and noticed the plug that came out was dry...). Then we noticed the air bubble in the clear fuel line wasn't moving. We pulled the float bowl drain, and only a little bit of gas came out, then stopped. The float bowl was empty! We pulled the gas line from the petcock, and then turned the petcock on - gas flowed out of the petcock w/out problem.

The day was a bust, and we headed back to the garage.

Today, about 1 hour ago, I found this thread. Earlier at the Edelbrock site, I found the cross section drawing of the carb design. When I saw this post from Tortured Z, I thought maybe I could tap the carb, or at worst, put a little air pressure down the fuel line to unstick the valve, if that was the problem.

I went to the garage, got a #2 phillips, opened the petcock, and tapped three times fairly lightly on the carb at about the axis line of the float bowl's fuel valve. That big old air bubble flushed like a toilet, and I could actually hear the gas running into the float bowl. Sure enough, after messing around for two hours on Saturday morning to no avail, my BRP started right up. I drove it about 4 miles without any problem.

I'm at least happy that I think I know the problem, and therefore can tap the carb body to solve it next time.

Here's are my questions:
1) It seems to me that this stuck valve problem could happen any time. How safe is this product if it happens when I'm in the middle of some hairy hill climb?
2) Is there a reengineered fix? Tortured Z talked about a "push/pull" design. Have you folks figured anything like this out? (I know his popst was over two years ago...)
3) Is it likely that the temporary fix of tapping on the carnb body may someday not be enough? And what then?

In addition, ever since I put the carb on, I noticed that if I run WOT, it starts cutting out. I start closing the throttle, and it comes back to life. Rob Barnum was thinking it was jetting, so I initially adjusted it about 20 times to get the best overall performance. I was never able to cure this phenomenon. But in my 5 outings or so, I guess I just rarely run WOT for very long (I do a lot of trail riding). It occurs to me that the two problems could be the same root cause.

I'd appreciate any update or suggestions you may have for me.

Thanks,

Thump

your float bowl needle needs to be adjusted to allow more feuel into your bowl. its sucking it all up at full throottle and your running lean from the bowl. press the prong in the bowl float to allow more fuel in but not to much over fill the bowl and spuel fuel out the over flows and whatnot. i and many other have htis problem as well but this is the fix

I'm haveing the sam idle problem as sated on the first page I know this topic was started a long time a go but has anyone came up with a fix for this

ok ay i think i solved the problem like bonk said the cable wheel had a little play in it before the shaft turned so i tightened up the set screw and it worked for a while and the idle kept lowering and lowering so I took it back apart and noticed mine was missing one of the 2 set screws and the wheel was just slipping on the shaft as i was riding so that solved the problem and now i really like this carb i can now pull 5th gear wheelies and its super easy to adjust at first i thought i would be trading the peice of crap for an fcr but now i really like it

are guys aware that your carb isnt probably opening all the way due to a throttle stop in your throttle lever housing. its very common among the brocks to need throttle housing mods to acheive another 10% throttle maybe more.open your carb up to wot and see if the silde goes up all the way to full throttle. atv off of course.

Kick azzz thread. I think I will be adjusting my float.

My eddy ran perfect once I got it tuned. It idled nice and picked up rpm excelllently but the darn thing didn't return to Idle. the only way I got it to return was put a HUGE!! spring on the throttle wheel and then it was so stiff to drive that it was more of a chore than fun. So i came to tthe conclusion that this carb needs a push and pull throttle cable (twist setup) for it to return to idle properly. Thier was nothing worse than coming into a U-turn on the track and have ur quad stay 1/3 throttle and damn neer going over the berm!!! But other than that mine ran very nice.

i had a little problem with the throtle sticking to but i found that the cable was alittle kinkied so i lubed it up and its been working great just disconnect the cable from the carb and open the throttle with your hand and see if it still sticks and you can tell what your problem is

I am having the same problems with my eddy as listed above... I think the only difference is that I am running with a twist throttle and still having the idle problems and that this carb came off of an 400EX but I really dont think thats an issue because I am having allthe same problems as above! The only difference that I see is that the needle that comes with the 400EX carb is a 15E and I need a 17E which shouldnt be a problem to get.
.... Im also cutting out in 5th gear at WOT. What the hell did you all do to fix this problem I have read all of the above statements and so far I have gotten that I need to adjust my float and not real sure what else to do from there... I am running the stock petcock and was told to put on a raptor 660 petcock to elminate the vacume issue, but the lines are clamped off and I run in the prime postion at all times... I have jetted and everything I can do for now untill I get somewhere else to run with this if you have any info that you can give me please e mail me asap at knabel21@yahoo.com... I am going riding tomorrow night and have all day to mess with this thing so any and all info emailed to me would be greatly appreciated!!!!