I want everyone to check there Athena jugs BEFORE tightening the jug and head down!! Do not "ass"sume it is cosher.

This is the 2nd one I have had that looked this way.

This picture shows how far the gap is on one side only. The other side seems to fit flush.





Here is the other side.



Please before installing the new piston on the rod, and without the base gasket on the cases... place the Athena down onto the cases and check that it is flat. This one is not, but will be by the time I am finished with it.

Here is the section that needs to be grinded down. This is not exact but only to give you an idea of the extent of grinding one will need to do. This will need to be grinded on all 4 corners.





Some people have called Athena and gotten a new Jug sent to them. I have not gone that route.

Thanks tersejr. The mods should make this sticky!

Great right up, maybe this thread should become sticky?

thanks man for the information

I Know there is some confusion when we try to explain how and where the jug hits.

Here is the inside of the cases that the Athena skirt hits.

ouch so i guess this isn't really a "bolt on" huh

Its about as close to a bolt on as you can get. When I installed mine, I did as suggested, and dry fit it without the base gasket. It looked fine. After I rode on it for a little while I started hearing some noises coming from the lower end, So I'm guessing its probably hitting the skirt. I havent had time to pull it apart yet and check, just a little grinding will fix it up right.

I am unsure if the cases expend more then the skirt or the Athena metal skirt expands more then the cases, but I have heard this before that the Athena was not this bad or it didn't look this bad when I installed it the first time. Maybe after they heat up they expand and the clearences get to tight? Doesn't sound right... but this one is can be seen ver very obveous that it is off.

"Bolt on" is relitive. I think it is bolt on, but needs to be "fitted" to each application.

Engine building isnt a novice sport.

I'm no professional myself, but being somewhat mechanically inclined helps out a lot.

I know I would be pissed if I bought a kit and had to do this to install it.

Then have a professional do it and pay twice as much, its a trade off really. I think the number of problems related to the sleeve kit's outweigh those of the athena. But as someone allready said, its all about the install. If you dont feel confident about the install, then hire a professional builder. Personally I think it isnt very difficult to grind down the base of the jug to make it fit right, or have athena send you a new one.

I agree if your putting in a bore kit, doing a little grinding really isnt that hard.

Is this what Advantage "fit tests" to check on their Athenas?

I understand what your saying. Its just that a bolt on shop be a "bolt on". I've done a ton of work on quads. More than I've actually wanted to, trust me...

I would assume so.

IMO a bolt should be a bolt on, but this is not always the case. I have heard that Athena has been replacing the bad ones. The problem stems from that most people do not know they have a problem until after it breaks and causes damage. My advise is to check every single one no matter who you get them from.

Very good thread indeed! Thanks!

Well, finally got around to pulling my motor apart today, and low and behold! I have the same thing tersejr was showing. mine was much more minor scaring than what you have. None the less, I am going to grind down the skirt tomorrow. Anything I should watch out for when doing this? Should I grind it down flat, then bevel the edges? or does it not matter?

Take your time grinding. I grinded with a dremel and stone and the stine grinds itself in to forming a bevel. I kept the factory bevel shape and grinded the whole bottom skirt. All around the whole thing. Just take your time and don't get in a hurry as you do not want the nikisil to chunk off on you. I grinded about 90% of the factory bevel away, then reshaped the bevel. You might think that it would then be hard to fit the rings in the jug, but it really wasn't. FYI, I didn't grind on the nikisil coating, only the exposed aluminum bevel. Test fit it often, as soon as it fits flat with out the base gasket you know for a fact then it will fit flat and not hit with a gasket. Once it fits flat... grind a little more just to smooth the edge and allow for gasket crush.

Yes, this is the issue we check for and we do relieve the lower skirt as need for our customers. I have to say I dealt with the GM for Athena, over in Italy on this issue, and he assures me they had it fixed. ( not from what I've seen) I still have all the pics (like the ones above) that I had sent them.

All in all though I still really like the kits and still recommend them.

One of the above posts makes a good point though, engine building isn't like putting a puzzle together. You need to look for fitment issues through out the whole build, and be ready to make small mods/adjustments to make it come out right.

Paul

Just a quick update, the grinding went well, and my motor is running/sounding great! It was a very simple procedure, took me maybe a half hour to an hour to get it right. Dont let this kind of fitment issue defer you from buying this great kit!

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Wow dude!! What did you do to her?

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I am an Athena Rep And after a few phone calls making me aware of this post I found it necessary to assure everyone who reads this that the new kits are fine and this problem was taken care of some time ago. Athena was aware of this problem and took immediate precautions to fix it. There were a few kits that were noticeably defective and Athena took care of those who did receive them. Once again this was some time ago and the corrected kits have been in circulation for a while.

Thanks for posting this info. Is there maybe a serial # to a kit to represent it it is a old defective kit vs. a new good kit?

Athena tech1 is right. I talked to him and showed him this cause after i saw it i checked mine out asap and then called them. I showed him this page and he told me everything was good too. and everything is.

Got around to snapping some pics of what and where needs to be grinded off on the Athena jug skirts. Not all of them are to long, but PLEASE check yours first before tightening them down and calling it good.... good until they heat up and crack or best case blow a gasket.

Here is where they hit...



I quickly marked the areas that should be ground down.

Here is how I ground down the skirts that interfere with fitment. Yours may need more or less or even in a different location all together.

Great thread I just got a kit and it will be the weekend project... I'll make sure I check it out before I tighten it up... Thanks for the post!

Well I just installed my kit and it was a good thing I read this thread.. Mine needed a lot of grinding to make it fit the way it should. If it was not for this site I would have just bolted the thing together...Great site!!!!!

I ordered a kit (just after X-Mas 2007) through Advantage Cycle and I too had to do some grinding to get it to mount flush.

Hmmm, I've noticed the last couple of dozen were about 4mm under the stock skirt lenth, which should suffice the problem, but its still wise to check for any clearance issues with any engine part.

Paul

I bought the kit from Paul about a month ago bottom of skirt was fine, although I did need to grind a little on the outside of the skirt to get it to slide into the case.(there was a little lip around the outside of the skirt preventing it from sliding down, no biggie). Like this post says if a little grinding is an issue for you, you probably shouldn't be building it yourself.... Just wanted to say thanks again to Paul at Advantage Cycle, I called him with questions (more than once) and he was always happy to help, top notch customer service! Thanks Again.

Mine fit with no grinding.

hi guys and girls i just bought one from western power sports but after reading this im a lil worried that i might grind to far, but someone else told me that athena has made a new batch with a new part # has anyone else ever heard of this if so can u provive me the part #

Try it without the base gasket and piston to check the clearance, mine was fine and I bought it new off ebay in December.

So if a get a new athena 435 kit, i will have to grind w00ter off??? why?? the description says it bolts rite on....

all the more reason not to buy one of these kits. what kind of crap is that? a few hundred bucks for an engine part, that you have to grind on to get to fit.

When it comes to hot rodding toy's nothing is a direct fit or just what people say...Half the fun is doing the job and making it just wright....I love my kit and I did have to grind it to fit but the mother runs like crazy....

What happened to the original pix? Can you repost those?

The only other comparable alternative "bolt on" would be the wiseco cylinder kit.. Last I saw, those were going for almost $1000.

Truth be told, hardly anything when it comes to internal motor work is "bolt-on." This holds true for small engines and large engines alike. If you cant handle grinding 1/16 of an inch off of a 1/2 inch section of the jug, you should not be anywhere near a motor. Not to mention Athena will replace these "defective" cylinders for free, if any more of them are still in circulation.

Paul at Advantage Cycle test fits all his cylinders, and has a great price.

Not the pictures showing the gap and how much was needed to be removed. The photo bucket account was deleted the so where the pictures.

I just got another dvx about a month ago and put the athena 94mm piston in with the LA Sleeve dropped into an old cylinder i had. I had put the motor all back togather without checking that gap so i took it back apart just to check and make sure that the sleeve wasnt hitting the block like the athena kit. Once i got it apart i had noticed that it was hitting and i grinded it done to make it right. In my opinion i would say everyone should check to make sure they dont have this problem no matter what kit or setup you go with. Its better to be save then sorry.
!

i just checked my jug last night, and i too have to massage it a lil to fit. oh well, just makes the bond between man and his machine a lil closer!

i'm just saying, if i spend 500 bucks on a cylinder...it should fit without problems. i have NEVER spent 500 dollars on any internal car engine part that i had to grind to make fit.
better yet, i have never taken a grinder to any internal engine part in my life. and i've been a mechanic for 16 years thus far.

well ive had a few custom projects over the years and i always had to modify something or another to get it to fit. s-10 with 300hp v-8 and jeep cj-7 with vortec v-6

that is a small price to pay for as good as those athena's really are!! i bought one and had no problems with them. no regrind needed.

and did you grind the heads down on that s10...no, you either bought the correct valve covers for the conversion, or you removed the heater box. i've got a cj7 sitting in my barn right now with a 350, turbo 350 trans and fullsize t-case sitting in it...pretty straightforawrd swap.

what i'm saying is, quality control should be high enough that they thing dont have to be ground on to make it fit. are they unable to manufacture it in a way that it bolts on? if not, maybe their cad designer or cnc/casting operator needs a bit more training. someone dropped the ball in the design/manufacturing process.

Here are the facts... it should fit, it's supposed to be bolt on, some fit... others need work. If you don't like it don't buy it. Quit whining about it.

I second that! Good gawd man, take a pill or something


Modification takes carefull checking and inspection on every piece and every bolt. If you dont like it, dont modify things. If you do still want to modify things, do your homework, and double check EVERYTHING!!! If you dont it is YOUR fault, not the manufacturer's. There are variances on absolutely everything ever made.

Not to beat a dead horse here but to just let everyone know...their are still some bad kits floating around out there....I just purchased one and it would even fit at all ...so either please purchase one from Paul at Advantage or be very carefull where you get it...