Hi guys. I have been out of the forum for a while and recently have been reading about the Kibblewhite valves, but have not really found a post to understand the convenience of these valves.
Could anyone explain me what is the difference between having the Kibblewhites instead of the stock valves. Is it reliability and durability, or performance? Are these valves better for modified engines (hotcams, big bore kit, CDI, etc.) for racing??? How about trail riding???
All your sharing knowledge is welcome!!!! TKS
Full Version: Attention Anyone Who Is Changing Valves
The stock valves are junk. They are a cheap, steel, 2 piece design that is inertia welded together, which can bring big problems. This is not anything special at all. They are cheap to build in massive ammounts, that is the style that comes stock in most automotive applications.
You might say, "well my cars have never had valve problems," But your car does not frequent 9100RPM like your Z does. Hell, could you imagine Nascar running something like that? That would be comparable RPM.
The Kibbles are a One piece, stainless steel design which are durable as hell! They are not welded together like the stockers, so they wont break off and fall into the engine like some of the stock type have. They will outlast the stockers also because Stainless steel is harder.
The stock valves have a bad problem with cupping also which ruins them. It happened to me.
You might say, "well my cars have never had valve problems," But your car does not frequent 9100RPM like your Z does. Hell, could you imagine Nascar running something like that? That would be comparable RPM.
The Kibbles are a One piece, stainless steel design which are durable as hell! They are not welded together like the stockers, so they wont break off and fall into the engine like some of the stock type have. They will outlast the stockers also because Stainless steel is harder.
The stock valves have a bad problem with cupping also which ruins them. It happened to me.
he is right i have read probley a hundret treds saying the same thing about the stockers
also if you look at both side by side they have different
angles built in. im not a flow expert nor do i have a flow
bench but by looks alone id say they flow more than
stock with the diff angle cut.
angles built in. im not a flow expert nor do i have a flow
bench but by looks alone id say they flow more than
stock with the diff angle cut.
I know KW have a huge following here on Zcentral but some of the other forums don't have as good a reviews. I have read that there was a bad batch of KW valves that were not of the correct hardness and worn out extremely fast. That was a while back and not an issue anymore. I haven't had any probs with my stockers to this point but it is well documented from others.
Those that surf a little may be familiar or heard of Ron Hamp, aka RHC over at Thumper Talk. He is VERY renowned for his work and accomplishments with the DRZ (LTZ) heads. He has valves made and coated to his own specifications based on extensive flow bench and dyno tuning. As expected, they are more expensive than the KW at $46 ea.
Those that surf a little may be familiar or heard of Ron Hamp, aka RHC over at Thumper Talk. He is VERY renowned for his work and accomplishments with the DRZ (LTZ) heads. He has valves made and coated to his own specifications based on extensive flow bench and dyno tuning. As expected, they are more expensive than the KW at $46 ea.
QUOTE (SprinterX @ Mar 10 2007, 01:37 PM) 
I haven't had any probs with my stockers to this point but it is well documented from others.
same here. we must be the lucky ones
QUOTE (Fakie @ Mar 10 2007, 01:34 PM)
same here. we must be the lucky ones
im still running stock but ive got KW's ready to go
in on next rebuild!
QUOTE (Fakie @ Mar 10 2007, 01:34 PM)
same here. we must be the lucky ones
Me too. But Kibs are next on the list. Just haven't needed to make the switch just yet.
QUOTE (Fakie @ Mar 10 2007, 11:34 AM)
same here. we must be the lucky ones
Yea, stock valves look cherry and the cam chain is in top shape too. I'm putting in the +1 RHC valves and the DID 3/4 chain since it's all apart.
Of course, being a Yellow Z400 is the reason these bits are lasting so long.
QUOTE (SprinterX @ Mar 10 2007, 03:32 PM)
Yea, stock valves look cherry and the cam chain is in top shape too. I'm putting in the +1 RHC valves and the DID 3/4 chain since it's all apart.
Of course, being a Yellow Z400 is the reason these bits are lasting so long.
Of course, being a Yellow Z400 is the reason these bits are lasting so long.
you know it! yellow is gotta be the reason
I'm not gonna touch the valves till I have a reason to (like njc said). I dont really even know how long I'm gonna keep the z anyway. the new 450s are sounding better each day. less cash in the long run. but, no more sleeper status...
QUOTE (Fakie @ Mar 10 2007, 03:57 PM)
but, no more sleeper status...
That's what I like! I like it when guys look at mine like "oh, it's just another one of those 400's".
QUOTE (N.J.C. @ Mar 10 2007, 05:03 PM)
That's what I like! I like it when guys look at mine like "oh, it's just another one of those 400's".
yup! you got a good point there! most of the time they just shake their head with a dumb look on their face
QUOTE(N.J.C. @ Mar 10 2007, 05:03 PM)
That's what I like! I like it when guys look at mine like "oh, it's just another one of those 400's".
Oh Yea, that's what I'm talk'n about right there.
Most anyone with the cash can walk in and buy a 450 and that's kewl too. One of the things I like most about my Z is it's the way I built it. Many bits and pieces are fab'd up in my own garage, come from my ideas or those shared by fellow Z enthusiasts.
When I can pull my fat a$$ up beside some hotdogs 450, lay a whoop'n on him and then get to enjoy the distraught look on his face makes it all that more fun. Yea, I'll probably move on to another machine down the road and start the process again, but for now this is doing it for me.
Cheers, Kirk
That's what I like! I like it when guys look at mine like "oh, it's just another one of those 400's".
QUOTE (Fakie @ Mar 10 2007, 02:07 PM)
yup! you got a good point there! most of the time they just shake their head with a dumb look on their face
Oh Yea, that's what I'm talk'n about right there.
Most anyone with the cash can walk in and buy a 450 and that's kewl too. One of the things I like most about my Z is it's the way I built it. Many bits and pieces are fab'd up in my own garage, come from my ideas or those shared by fellow Z enthusiasts.
When I can pull my fat a$$ up beside some hotdogs 450, lay a whoop'n on him and then get to enjoy the distraught look on his face makes it all that more fun. Yea, I'll probably move on to another machine down the road and start the process again, but for now this is doing it for me.
Cheers, Kirk
QUOTE (Fakie @ Mar 10 2007, 02:34 PM)
same here. we must be the lucky ones
You guys might just be the only ones that clean your air filter as often as you should
I think that plays a big role in the cupping problem that the stockers have. I know when mine went, that was back when I treated my quad like sh*t, and I hadnt ever cleaned the filter. I learned my lesson.
I really enjoy having a sleeper also!
I have put a hurtin on a few 450's and 700R's. The best part is the guy with the 700R always said that the modded stuff wasnt reliable, but mine has proven it self to me!It took me 6mo to have a problem with a fully stock engine. I have had my 440 going for a full year now, and not one problem. As a matter of fact, I did a leak down test on it last night, 1/2%-1% leak down! They dont get better than that!
a word of advice -- change your valves every year if you ride alot.
my yellow z has always had stock valves and i have never had a problem. knock on wood. compared to alot of other valves the stock suzuki valves are actually a very good flowing valve. if you notice there is very little room to backcut a set of stock valves. of course i change my air filter or clean it after every ride. dirty air is what cups valves like cfm said. my brother had a yellow Z and when we put new valves in it we put stock ones in it and he was a frequent visiter to the rev limiter but never had any problems. a valve doesn't just fall apart on its own. if you have a stock valve laying around that is junk then clamp it in a vice and try to smack the bottop of it off with a hammer. it is going to bend before it breaks off. most of the time a broke valve is not the valves fault at all. it is uaually the combo of a stock spring and hi rev cdi. something has to happen for the valve to break. this is usually due to extensive overrevving and a valve floating followed by a introduction of aluminum to steel which is a relationship that will usually end up in disaster. ya it is fun to rev a motor and hear it scream but we have to face it sooner than later --- we aren't on two strokes anymore!!!!
my yellow z has always had stock valves and i have never had a problem. knock on wood. compared to alot of other valves the stock suzuki valves are actually a very good flowing valve. if you notice there is very little room to backcut a set of stock valves. of course i change my air filter or clean it after every ride. dirty air is what cups valves like cfm said. my brother had a yellow Z and when we put new valves in it we put stock ones in it and he was a frequent visiter to the rev limiter but never had any problems. a valve doesn't just fall apart on its own. if you have a stock valve laying around that is junk then clamp it in a vice and try to smack the bottop of it off with a hammer. it is going to bend before it breaks off. most of the time a broke valve is not the valves fault at all. it is uaually the combo of a stock spring and hi rev cdi. something has to happen for the valve to break. this is usually due to extensive overrevving and a valve floating followed by a introduction of aluminum to steel which is a relationship that will usually end up in disaster. ya it is fun to rev a motor and hear it scream but we have to face it sooner than later --- we aren't on two strokes anymore!!!!
QUOTE (Wilburg3 @ Mar 10 2007, 01:27 AM)
Hi guys. I have been out of the forum for a while...
Wilburg! Nice to see you back again! I was wondering what had happened with you - welcome back!
Everything CFM-440 said in the post below your initial post is right on the money.
The Kibblewhite Black Diamonds are made from a big piece of stainless steel, machined as a single unit. For the stockers, they machine the valve head from a square chunk of steel, and machine the stems from a rod of steel. Once they're machined, they mount them in in two different lathes, spinning in opposite directions (very high speeds), and press them together - this is an "inertia weld," and fuses the two parts together. When stock valves fail, it's usually at this inertia-weld point, and the valve head drops into the cylinder and combustion chamber. The RPMs will beat things to death in there until somthing gives - likely the top of a piston, or the cylinder walls.
Anyway, it's damn good to see you back in here!
Welcome back, brother!
yellow is the key!! my frame was pretty good for bottoming out on a 40ft jump a couple times!! haha and my engines been pretty good other than a busted 3rd gear..
Titanium valves and steel valves with Tufftride surface treatment are damaged by lapping and must not be used after lapping. Lapping removes the hardened surface of the valve's sealing face, and will cause the valve to cup.
If you are wondering if you have tufftride treated valves, they will have a dark grey colored face, and a dull appearance. These valves should not even be cleaned with a wire brush. Personally I would replace them with something better like Kibble White "Black Diamond" valves.
The Z400 and clones use Tufftride treated valves which have already proven unreliable.
If the valve seats need to be re-surfaced, they should be re-machined. If you find you do need to lap your seats, use an old valve, or get an extra one for that purpose.
This came from a very very reliable source, and I my self didnt know untill recently.
If you are using steel, non treated valves, or stainless steel valves like the Kibble Whites. lapping is fine
Please pin and lock this thread
If you are wondering if you have tufftride treated valves, they will have a dark grey colored face, and a dull appearance. These valves should not even be cleaned with a wire brush. Personally I would replace them with something better like Kibble White "Black Diamond" valves.
The Z400 and clones use Tufftride treated valves which have already proven unreliable.
If the valve seats need to be re-surfaced, they should be re-machined. If you find you do need to lap your seats, use an old valve, or get an extra one for that purpose.
This came from a very very reliable source, and I my self didnt know untill recently.
If you are using steel, non treated valves, or stainless steel valves like the Kibble Whites. lapping is fine
Please pin and lock this thread
I merged two related topics together. Both theads have very good info about stock and aftermarket valves. I'll pin it, but it really doesn't need to be closed because more good info my arise.
Thank you all guys for your comments and suggestions.
I do not really need to change my valves. However, last year, when I got the engine head ported and polished, I was not satisfied at all with the supposed performance I should get. And I made a mistake, since having all the facilities to control the port and polish work, I left said job to my mechanic, who does not have a flow bench (I just found out this issue a few weeks ago). And I really mean that it was a mistake, because I work for the Toyota sole distributor for Costa Rica, and lately found out that in our Racing Department (racing cars shop), we have a flow bench and expert operators which I could have used for said purpose!!!!!
Regardless the above, the quad was running very good, but for all the money it has on it, I expected something else!!! Anyway, I do not race but having all the mods and increasing performance is a "kind of hobby" that I like, indeed, expensive hobby!!!!
So, what I did was to buy an used stock head and will have it ported and polished professionally!!! At this point, well, if I am going to open the top end for said head work, I thought it could be wise to take the opportunity and have the valves replaced as well as the cam chain. I have already ordered both items from Paul at AdvantageCycle, among other items. We are also going to put the Eddelbrock carb together with the head in the flow bench to combine adjustments.
Thanks again for all your help. I will let you all know the "final results".
Best regards to all of you.
I do not really need to change my valves. However, last year, when I got the engine head ported and polished, I was not satisfied at all with the supposed performance I should get. And I made a mistake, since having all the facilities to control the port and polish work, I left said job to my mechanic, who does not have a flow bench (I just found out this issue a few weeks ago). And I really mean that it was a mistake, because I work for the Toyota sole distributor for Costa Rica, and lately found out that in our Racing Department (racing cars shop), we have a flow bench and expert operators which I could have used for said purpose!!!!!
Regardless the above, the quad was running very good, but for all the money it has on it, I expected something else!!! Anyway, I do not race but having all the mods and increasing performance is a "kind of hobby" that I like, indeed, expensive hobby!!!!
So, what I did was to buy an used stock head and will have it ported and polished professionally!!! At this point, well, if I am going to open the top end for said head work, I thought it could be wise to take the opportunity and have the valves replaced as well as the cam chain. I have already ordered both items from Paul at AdvantageCycle, among other items. We are also going to put the Eddelbrock carb together with the head in the flow bench to combine adjustments.
Thanks again for all your help. I will let you all know the "final results".
Best regards to all of you.
QUOTE (NormalZ @ Mar 11 2007, 01:41 AM)
Wilburg! Nice to see you back again! I was wondering what had happened with you - welcome back!
Everything CFM-440 said in the post below your initial post is right on the money.
The Kibblewhite Black Diamonds are made from a big piece of stainless steel, machined as a single unit. For the stockers, they machine the valve head from a square chunk of steel, and machine the stems from a rod of steel. Once they're machined, they mount them in in two different lathes, spinning in opposite directions (very high speeds), and press them together - this is an "inertia weld," and fuses the two parts together. When stock valves fail, it's usually at this inertia-weld point, and the valve head drops into the cylinder and combustion chamber. The RPMs will beat things to death in there until somthing gives - likely the top of a piston, or the cylinder walls.
Anyway, it's damn good to see you back in here! Welcome back, brother!
Everything CFM-440 said in the post below your initial post is right on the money.
The Kibblewhite Black Diamonds are made from a big piece of stainless steel, machined as a single unit. For the stockers, they machine the valve head from a square chunk of steel, and machine the stems from a rod of steel. Once they're machined, they mount them in in two different lathes, spinning in opposite directions (very high speeds), and press them together - this is an "inertia weld," and fuses the two parts together. When stock valves fail, it's usually at this inertia-weld point, and the valve head drops into the cylinder and combustion chamber. The RPMs will beat things to death in there until somthing gives - likely the top of a piston, or the cylinder walls.
Anyway, it's damn good to see you back in here!
Welcome back, brother!Hi Tom, it is good to hear from you too!!! Thanks for your comments.
The "almost frozen beers" are still in the freezer, and those beers and an extra z400 are ready for you for a Costa Rican vacation trail trip. Just let me know!!!
Any other suggestion or mod for the installation of the Kibblewhites????
Best regards,
Wilburg
QUOTE (N.J.C. @ Mar 12 2007, 10:47 PM)
I merged two related topics together. Both theads have very good info about stock and aftermarket valves. I'll pin it, but it really doesn't need to be closed because more good info my arise.
Good move Nick! I get asked about this stuff all the time either on the boards or via PM.
Here is a previously prepared statement I have come up with to answer the Question, "Why wont my Z400 start?" Because when they cup a valve, they will run like crap then after a little longer, they will die, and wont start...
QUOTE
Valve cupping
Check your valve clearance. My guess is that you will find 0 clearance on at least one intake valve, meaning it is cupped and the valve is junk.
This is a common issue with the Z especially lately. The stock valves in the Z400 engine are not very good and dusty conditions dont help either. Dust is like a sand blaster on your valves. If you havent cleaned your air filter often enough, that could be the cause.
If you find 0 clearance, you can Not reshim and go. The valve is ruined!
The best fix are stainless steel, one piece valves. The only ones I know of are Ferrea or Kibble White, but I have heard recently about some kibbles that were not properly hardened. I have kibbles in my machine that have lived 2 years now with no problems, but Im undecided on what I will go wiht next time. I dont know of any problems with the Ferrea valves yet.
I wouldnt do any of this without DRZE springs, and a DID timing chain. Those are the weakest points of the z400 engine and if you have it apart any way, it is a good idea to get that stuff changed now so you dont have to take it apart again to do it later.
You can get them all from Advantage Cycle (site sponcer) He sells it as a DRZe kit that comes with everything you need except the valves. The valves you will have to buy seperate from the kit, but he has them.
The DRZe kit also comes with a DRze base gasket that will raise your compression from 11.3:1 (stock) to 12.2:1 which will make a little more power. You will need to run premium fuel if you put that base gasket in though.
I have been through this my self with my 03, and I have helped many other people with this problem on this forum.
Feel free to PM me with questions on this topic. Im a Yamaha/Arctic Cat mechanic.
Check your valve clearance. My guess is that you will find 0 clearance on at least one intake valve, meaning it is cupped and the valve is junk.
This is a common issue with the Z especially lately. The stock valves in the Z400 engine are not very good and dusty conditions dont help either. Dust is like a sand blaster on your valves. If you havent cleaned your air filter often enough, that could be the cause.
If you find 0 clearance, you can Not reshim and go. The valve is ruined!
The best fix are stainless steel, one piece valves. The only ones I know of are Ferrea or Kibble White, but I have heard recently about some kibbles that were not properly hardened. I have kibbles in my machine that have lived 2 years now with no problems, but Im undecided on what I will go wiht next time. I dont know of any problems with the Ferrea valves yet.
I wouldnt do any of this without DRZE springs, and a DID timing chain. Those are the weakest points of the z400 engine and if you have it apart any way, it is a good idea to get that stuff changed now so you dont have to take it apart again to do it later.
You can get them all from Advantage Cycle (site sponcer) He sells it as a DRZe kit that comes with everything you need except the valves. The valves you will have to buy seperate from the kit, but he has them.
The DRZe kit also comes with a DRze base gasket that will raise your compression from 11.3:1 (stock) to 12.2:1 which will make a little more power. You will need to run premium fuel if you put that base gasket in though.
I have been through this my self with my 03, and I have helped many other people with this problem on this forum.
Feel free to PM me with questions on this topic. Im a Yamaha/Arctic Cat mechanic.
QUOTE (CFM-Z440 @ Mar 13 2007, 05:16 PM)
Here is a previously prepared statement I have come up with to answer the Question, "Why wont my Z400 start?" Because when they cup a valve, they will run like crap then after a little longer, they will die, and wont start...
Great contribution CMF-Z440!!! Thanks a lot!!!
Are there any other choices for valves than KW? I am just looking for options...
QUOTE (AT_Z400 @ Mar 15 2007, 07:43 PM)
Are there any other choices for valves than KW? I am just looking for options...
I have Ferrea valves in my machine.
QUOTE (SprinterX @ Mar 10 2007, 11:37 AM)
Those that surf a little may be familiar or heard of Ron Hamp, aka RHC over at Thumper Talk. He is VERY renowned for his work and accomplishments with the DRZ (LTZ) heads. He has valves made and coated to his own specifications based on extensive flow bench and dyno tuning. As expected, they are more expensive than the KW at $46 ea.
^ ^ ^ ^
RHC valves, that's what's in mine.
Ron Hamp Cycle
QUOTE (SprinterX @ Mar 15 2007, 08:37 PM)
i am currently inspecting my top end because the valves are out of whack and they need to be adjusted to get me through one more glamis trip. after that it will be in need of a top end. ill most likely go with the aftermarket valves. thinking about cams, but really don't want to put money into this 400. rather save and get a yfz450. but i will however most likely throw some cams in it. any suggestions? or is there even any mods you can do to the stock ones like you do on the YFZ?...and yes im a sell out, im going with a yfz 450
ive read this post a few times now and i think i may have to do the cam chain and valves and whatnot, i boutght my 03 z used completely stock and i can tell a big difference now than when i got it, you can hear the cam chain ticking really bad. so, to get to my question, if i get the kit from advantage with the gaskets and everthing, will the springs in the kit work with KW valves? will there be any head work needed with the valves or can i just put them in and ride? if i get cams and the kit, can i run the stock rev box and still run it on 93 fuel? also, which cams would you guys suggest, im looking at hot cams, are webbers better? i have the air box lid off with stock air filter, 150 mj, and yoshi slip on and thats it as far as motor goes. thanks in advance.
QUOTE (gordner16 @ Apr 1 2007, 08:03 PM)
ive read this post a few times now and i think i may have to do the cam chain and valves and whatnot, i boutght my 03 z used completely stock and i can tell a big difference now than when i got it, you can hear the cam chain ticking really bad. so, to get to my question, if i get the kit from advantage with the gaskets and everthing, will the springs in the kit work with KW valves? will there be any head work needed with the valves or can i just put them in and ride? if i get cams and the kit, can i run the stock rev box and still run it on 93 fuel? also, which cams would you guys suggest, im looking at hot cams, are webbers better? i have the air box lid off with stock air filter, 150 mj, and yoshi slip on and thats it as far as motor goes. thanks in advance.
I really want to know thses answers also..
IF I HAVE TO RESHIM MY VALVES
1. SINCE IM IN THERE DO KW VALVES ALSO
2. DRZ KIT ALSO ?
3. CAMS BEST TIME TO DO THIS
4. ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD DO SO I DONT HAVE REGRETS OR FEEL I MISSED SOMETHING
QUOTE (EVlL @ Apr 28 2007, 06:22 PM)
I really want to know thses answers also..
IF I HAVE TO RESHIM MY VALVES
1. SINCE IM IN THERE DO KW VALVES ALSO
2. DRZ KIT ALSO ?
3. CAMS BEST TIME TO DO THIS
4. ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD DO SO I DONT HAVE REGRETS OR FEEL I MISSED SOMETHING
IF I HAVE TO RESHIM MY VALVES
1. SINCE IM IN THERE DO KW VALVES ALSO
2. DRZ KIT ALSO ?
3. CAMS BEST TIME TO DO THIS
4. ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD DO SO I DONT HAVE REGRETS OR FEEL I MISSED SOMETHING
Yes, you will need to re-shim or at least check, any time you change any parts that are involved.
The DRZe kit comes with everything you should need except the valves.
Do the cams when ever you want, but you will need to re-shim any way, so why not?
The stock cam chain is not very good, and many have had a lot of trouble with it, so change it. (comes with the DRZe kit)
The stock valve springs are nothing special, and imo not good enough for any mods, so change them. (comes with the DRZe kit)
The stock base gasket is thicker than the DRZe base gasket. The DRZe gasket raises your compression to 12.4:1 which requires premium fuel (91 or higher) but adds power (comes with the DRZe kit)
The stock valves are garbage. So change them out too. Just ask Meade how good they are if you dont believe me.
He lost a top end to a stock valve not long ago.Those are the biggest problems with the Z's engine. Fix those, locktite your flywheel bolts, and keep up with maintainance, and you should not have trouble.
Just to reinterate what CFM440, and NormalZ said, I suspect most of the damaged stock valves comes from sucking dirt through. It acts like a sand blaster and will break up the stellite on the valve faces, and ruin the rings. Proof posititve.........clean your air filter often!!
I like using the kibblewhite valves on our head re-builds. They are a very durable valve. Just keep in mind that installing them correctly involves re-cutting the seats, and lapping to ensure a good seal.
Paul
I like using the kibblewhite valves on our head re-builds. They are a very durable valve. Just keep in mind that installing them correctly involves re-cutting the seats, and lapping to ensure a good seal.
Paul
Also keep in mind that valve spring weight should match the valve weight. Kibblewhite Black Diamonds are "Stock Weight" valves. They are a perfect match for DRZe or Kibblewhite valve springs. If you switch to a Titanium valve, I believe you need a different type of spring to match them.
When taking out the valve springs what compressor do you guys use?
Rob
Rob
QUOTE (robzkfx @ Jul 30 2007, 03:11 PM)
When taking out the valve springs what compressor do you guys use?
Rob
Rob
I made my own with a clamp and a socket that I cut the side out of.
Actually K&L supply has some really nice tools for the job now, no clamp needed.
where do I get everything I need for the top end--- chain , valves, springs I would like to get a full kit to put in and I just want to know where to get it all.
QUOTE (rumlesj1 @ Jul 30 2007, 07:47 PM)
where do I get everything I need for the top end--- chain , valves, springs I would like to get a full kit to put in and I just want to know where to get it all.
advantage cycle
QUOTE (robzkfx @ Jul 30 2007, 01:11 PM)
When taking out the valve springs what compressor do you guys use?
Rob
Rob
Works Great!
Spring Compressor
Hey guys, just wanted to drop a note I have the Ferrea's on the website now. Here is a post I made on a different thread.
Hey guys, just a quick note. Afer a few querys on the Ferrera's I called the company and will have them soon. They seem like good knowledgeable people. Pricewise, the'll be about the same as the kibblewhites. I will get them added to my website as soon as I have them.
Now, on the same note though, I am not stopping to carry the kibb's nor am I going to stop using them in head re-builds. I've literally built hundereds of heads from all makes and models, and had good luck with them. I do however want to provide customers with a choice.
Paul
Hey guys, just a quick note. Afer a few querys on the Ferrera's I called the company and will have them soon. They seem like good knowledgeable people. Pricewise, the'll be about the same as the kibblewhites. I will get them added to my website as soon as I have them.
Now, on the same note though, I am not stopping to carry the kibb's nor am I going to stop using them in head re-builds. I've literally built hundereds of heads from all makes and models, and had good luck with them. I do however want to provide customers with a choice.
Paul
^^^ That's good stuff, Paul - thank you!
Hey Paul,
I updated my pre written thingamajigger that I post every where to say that you have the ferreas now I edited the one in this thread to the new one.
If I have anything wrong in there, let me know
I updated my pre written thingamajigger that I post every where to say that you have the ferreas now
I edited the one in this thread to the new one.If I have anything wrong in there, let me know
QUOTE (mscottiel @ Mar 10 2007, 11:27 PM)
a word of advice -- change your valves every year if you ride alot.
my yellow z has always had stock valves and i have never had a problem. knock on wood. compared to alot of other valves the stock suzuki valves are actually a very good flowing valve. if you notice there is very little room to backcut a set of stock valves. of course i change my air filter or clean it after every ride. dirty air is what cups valves like cfm said. my brother had a yellow Z and when we put new valves in it we put stock ones in it and he was a frequent visiter to the rev limiter but never had any problems. a valve doesn't just fall apart on its own. if you have a stock valve laying around that is junk then clamp it in a vice and try to smack the bottop of it off with a hammer. it is going to bend before it breaks off. most of the time a broke valve is not the valves fault at all. it is uaually the combo of a stock spring and hi rev cdi. something has to happen for the valve to break. this is usually due to extensive overrevving and a valve floating followed by a introduction of aluminum to steel which is a relationship that will usually end up in disaster. ya it is fun to rev a motor and hear it scream but we have to face it sooner than later --- we aren't on two strokes anymore!!!!
my yellow z has always had stock valves and i have never had a problem. knock on wood. compared to alot of other valves the stock suzuki valves are actually a very good flowing valve. if you notice there is very little room to backcut a set of stock valves. of course i change my air filter or clean it after every ride. dirty air is what cups valves like cfm said. my brother had a yellow Z and when we put new valves in it we put stock ones in it and he was a frequent visiter to the rev limiter but never had any problems. a valve doesn't just fall apart on its own. if you have a stock valve laying around that is junk then clamp it in a vice and try to smack the bottop of it off with a hammer. it is going to bend before it breaks off. most of the time a broke valve is not the valves fault at all. it is uaually the combo of a stock spring and hi rev cdi. something has to happen for the valve to break. this is usually due to extensive overrevving and a valve floating followed by a introduction of aluminum to steel which is a relationship that will usually end up in disaster. ya it is fun to rev a motor and hear it scream but we have to face it sooner than later --- we aren't on two strokes anymore!!!!
I did that the other day....tried to bend a stocker. The head broke clean off. it would not bend.
if you run a basically stock engine with the exception of a pipe should the vavles be changed?
QUOTE (firefighterjosh @ Dec 31 2007, 12:24 AM)
if you run a basically stock engine with the exception of a pipe should the vavles be changed?
The big problem is the dust coming through the intake system for what ever reason. It doesnt matter weather or not your modded.
The other big problem is that they are made of two poor quality pieces, and some of them break in two.
QUOTE (robzkfx @ Jul 30 2007, 01:11 PM)
When taking out the valve springs what compressor do you guys use?
Rob
Rob
its not so much the compressor its the special tool needed to reach in to push down
on the spring . what i use was a 2 1/2'' piece 3/4'' pipe ,it had 2 large squares cut out. it looked like 2 rings which were joined one on each end,worked great easy to make .
i think somebody should also add the problems with the kibble white vavles. I read that thread completly and i am having the same problems that all the other guys had. possibley i didnt bring my head in to the right place to have them installed or what not. i only have 1 race and 1 afternoon riding on these valves and already the intakes have zero clearance. i can reset them and hope they will hold up but i really think that i will just have to junk those valves and go with some other kind.
is thier a great benifit in using the +1 valves over the stock size? i read somewhere that you gain more topend power from this mod.
QUOTE (rumlesj1 @ Mar 20 2008, 09:41 PM)
is thier a great benifit in using the +1 valves over the stock size? i read somewhere that you gain more topend power from this mod.
The valves that are in there are actually the same size as many of the 450's so I dont think its worth the cost for most people. However, if building something bigger than a 450cc out of a Z, then I would say you should.
I am having +1's put in my head for the 490
is it much more expensive for the +1's than the stock ones? is thier more extensive work required? i now have a 470 and i just sent my head out to Paul at advantage cycle so i would like to make up my mind before it gets to him.
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